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Apr 24, 2019
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mcgahn, the trump white house cannot stop don mcgahn from publicly testifying in congress about all of the same stuff he talked to robert mueller about because the white house, whoops, allowed him to testify about this stuff to robert mueller. and so that toothpaste is out of the tube. stuff is either privileged or it's not. they did not assert privilege to prevent mcgahn from talking about it to mueller. and because of that they will not be able to assert executive privilege. they will not be able to keep mcgahn from responding to a congressional subpoena to testify about that stuff he already talked to mueller about. that said, why not try anyway? maybe we will get at least some sort of delay. tonight "the washington post" was first to report that the white house will try to fight the congressional subpoena that was issued to don mcgahn yesterday by the judiciary committee. in addition to trying to block testimony by mcgahn, which i don't think anybody thinks they will be able to do, the post also reports tonight that the white house strategy from here on out will not be just to b
mcgahn, the trump white house cannot stop don mcgahn from publicly testifying in congress about all of the same stuff he talked to robert mueller about because the white house, whoops, allowed him to testify about this stuff to robert mueller. and so that toothpaste is out of the tube. stuff is either privileged or it's not. they did not assert privilege to prevent mcgahn from talking about it to mueller. and because of that they will not be able to assert executive privilege. they will not be...
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Apr 24, 2019
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don mcgahn as you've outlined. he can say he's cooperated with mueller and the american people will follow along but is congress will continue to fight and demand for these officials to testify. >> does the president seem to have any understanding of the executive privilege trouble he might now have with not only don mcgahn but with anybody from the trump white house who was allowed by the trump white house to give testimony to the special counsel's office? legal experts we've talked to tell us this is somewhat of an uncomplicated thing that matters are either privileged or not, and once anybody has been allowed to testify about them or indeed provide documents that document things happening in the white house or directly with the president, you've essentially forfeited your ability to say they're covered by executive because i have can't be conveyed to congress. >> that is a widespread view in the legal community, but the view out of the white house talking to the president and top white house officials is that th
don mcgahn as you've outlined. he can say he's cooperated with mueller and the american people will follow along but is congress will continue to fight and demand for these officials to testify. >> does the president seem to have any understanding of the executive privilege trouble he might now have with not only don mcgahn but with anybody from the trump white house who was allowed by the trump white house to give testimony to the special counsel's office? legal experts we've talked to...
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Apr 22, 2019
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don mcgahn was one of those individuals. now, it's not clear if he has fully complied with the request. we know that former white house officials have deferred to the white house and say, you need to go through the white house to determine what constitutes executive privilege and what does not. so it's unclear whether or not he has provided the same information to capitol hill that he has provided to the special counsel and the democrats believe that, essentially, executive privilege rights are waived because of the way that documents were exchanged between the white house and don mcgahn's attorneys and the way he prepared to testify before the special counsel. they'll try to pursue it on those grounds. we'll see if don mcgahn complies completely. perhaps they'll drop their subpoena if there's a voluntary agreement. but at the moment, that's a pretty significant move to try to compel don mcgahn's testimony and rye to get him to provide records as part of this committee's investigation into obstruction of justice, wolf. >> do
don mcgahn was one of those individuals. now, it's not clear if he has fully complied with the request. we know that former white house officials have deferred to the white house and say, you need to go through the white house to determine what constitutes executive privilege and what does not. so it's unclear whether or not he has provided the same information to capitol hill that he has provided to the special counsel and the democrats believe that, essentially, executive privilege rights are...
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Apr 22, 2019
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don mcgahn in particular. because when he was in the white house, the president and he had this troubled, at times complicated relationship because they didn't get along personally, of course, mcgahn was responsible for half of the judges that has been a big part of the president's legacy. the question whether he'd go on camera and testify to these events that happened to him is something the white house would certainly have a lot to say about because so far what mcgahn said, i believe he was cited over 150 times in the mueller report, really is revealing how much at the center of what democrats want to get into, the claims, allegations of obstruction of justice, he's right at the center of that. >> what are the democrats hoping to achieve by getting don mcgahn before the committee? because he spoke extensively, 30 hours, before mueller. >> that is a great question. i think that's something democrats are still figuring out. it's something i know was raised on the call in addition to potentially calling attorne
don mcgahn in particular. because when he was in the white house, the president and he had this troubled, at times complicated relationship because they didn't get along personally, of course, mcgahn was responsible for half of the judges that has been a big part of the president's legacy. the question whether he'd go on camera and testify to these events that happened to him is something the white house would certainly have a lot to say about because so far what mcgahn said, i believe he was...
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Apr 25, 2019
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out that don mcgahn had a long relationship with donald trump. he was not some new hire. he worked on every day of the campaign and his real estate lawyer during deals in atlantic city so they've known each other for a long time and for the president to say no one surrounding him participated in this, it is not true. he's known don mcgahn for more than a decade. nearly two decades. that is why this stings so much for the president. >> everybody stand by. there is more news we're following, including the uncertain fate right now of maria butina as the russian agent faces sentencing in a matter of hours. and after a summit with vladimir putin, kim jong-un is taking a new slap at president trump accusing the united states of acting in bad faith. a neighbord with a lot of other young couples. then we noticed something...strange. oh, could you, uh, make me a burger? -poof -- you're a burger. [ laughter ] -everyone acts like their parents. -you have a tattoo. -yes. -fun. do you not work? -so, what kind of mower you got, seth? -i don't know. some kid co
out that don mcgahn had a long relationship with donald trump. he was not some new hire. he worked on every day of the campaign and his real estate lawyer during deals in atlantic city so they've known each other for a long time and for the president to say no one surrounding him participated in this, it is not true. he's known don mcgahn for more than a decade. nearly two decades. that is why this stings so much for the president. >> everybody stand by. there is more news we're...
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Apr 23, 2019
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today, former trump white house counsel don mcgahn is that first subpoenaed witness, don mcgahn is the personification of history repeating itself just just as richard nixon's white house counsel became a star witness in the last investigation of a republican president. white house counsel don mcgahn is the star witness in the second half of the redacted mueller report in which mcgahn is quoted as saying the president was always asking him to do "crazy crap" much of which don mcgahn seemed to believe was illegal crazy crap. and the redamaged mueller report, don mcgahn was in the oval office when the president first discovered that robert mueller was appointed special prosecutor and the president said my god, this is terrible, this is the ends of my presidency. i'm effed. don mcgahn heard the president say that. he will testify that he heard the president say that. he's going to testify to all of in the house judiciary committee next month may 21st. but before that, the same subpoena that requires don mcgahn's testimony demands that he deliver documents to the committee just two weeks f
today, former trump white house counsel don mcgahn is that first subpoenaed witness, don mcgahn is the personification of history repeating itself just just as richard nixon's white house counsel became a star witness in the last investigation of a republican president. white house counsel don mcgahn is the star witness in the second half of the redacted mueller report in which mcgahn is quoted as saying the president was always asking him to do "crazy crap" much of which don mcgahn...
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Apr 27, 2019
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fired and don mcgahn said, no. the president then took a meeting with corey lewandowski, of all people. corey lewandowski, a private citizen at that point, sat him down in the oval office and told him to take dictation. corey, write this down. told him to write down a message that was essentially a draft statement that he wanted attorney general jeff sessions to deliver. that draft statement he wanted jeff sessions to deliver would have jeff sessions announcing that he was unrecusing himself from the russia investigation, he was taking over control of the special counsel's investigation, and he was directing mueller that he could no longer look at anything that happened in the 2016 election. instead, mueller henceforth must only look at future crimes. he must only look at crimes that russia might commit against future american elections that hadn't happened yet. but all of 2016, that's no longer what mueller is looking at. now, as the mueller report describes, lewandowski got this direction from the president. wrot
fired and don mcgahn said, no. the president then took a meeting with corey lewandowski, of all people. corey lewandowski, a private citizen at that point, sat him down in the oval office and told him to take dictation. corey, write this down. told him to write down a message that was essentially a draft statement that he wanted attorney general jeff sessions to deliver. that draft statement he wanted jeff sessions to deliver would have jeff sessions announcing that he was unrecusing himself...
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Apr 21, 2019
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it's in the mueller report and don mcgahn said he's telling the truth. under oath. did you believe don? >> i believe that don mcgahn is an honorable attorney who stayed on the job 18 months after this alleged incident took place and that if he were being asked to obstruct justice or violate the constitution, or help commit a crime by the president of the united states, he wouldn't have stayed. the president was frustrated. he's trying to make an ill-conceived investigation that's produced no collusion, no criminal conspiracy, no indictment, no impeachment of this president. he says on page 61, mueller admits that the president is rightly frustrated that he thinks this ill-conceived investigation is going to affect his ability to go forward with foreign policy and his domestic agenda. he's been under a cloud from day one -- >> kellyanne, just a few minutes. >> goes to trump tower, never bothers to come to meet the president elect between his election. you know james comey spends the last minutes of his time, telling the president about some unverified dossier, some g
it's in the mueller report and don mcgahn said he's telling the truth. under oath. did you believe don? >> i believe that don mcgahn is an honorable attorney who stayed on the job 18 months after this alleged incident took place and that if he were being asked to obstruct justice or violate the constitution, or help commit a crime by the president of the united states, he wouldn't have stayed. the president was frustrated. he's trying to make an ill-conceived investigation that's produced...
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don mcgahn is certainly one of them. >> you covered the doj. what do you make of this hint they may invoke privilege? that is after mcgahn sat there and testified for 30 plus hours. >> i think one of the real questions facing the white house right now and the justice department is what to do with all of these people who congress wants to talk to. the problem we have actually from the outside is it's not clear to what extent any of these individuals really want to come to congress including and especially special counsel mueller. >> that's a great point and we'd like permission to call upon you again. again as we continue to take these strings and pull on them from deep within the mueller report. our great thanks for joining us tonight. eric tucker returning to our broadcast. >>> and coming up for us, thousands of pro-trump twitter bots suddenly disappeared on easter sunday. we'll look at the disinformation the bot network is accused of spreading. and the surprising suspects that are said to be behind this particular now shut down campaign. that
don mcgahn is certainly one of them. >> you covered the doj. what do you make of this hint they may invoke privilege? that is after mcgahn sat there and testified for 30 plus hours. >> i think one of the real questions facing the white house right now and the justice department is what to do with all of these people who congress wants to talk to. the problem we have actually from the outside is it's not clear to what extent any of these individuals really want to come to congress...
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>> it depends on where it came from. >> don mcgahn saved him. >> don mcgahn didn't save him. >> don mcgahn didn't carry out an order and saved him. >> he had a perfect right to file mueller. >> omg. i don't know even where to begin. let me take there is nothing wrong with getting information from the russians. the russians are our most sophisticated adversary. trump has been denying that they interfered in the election time and again to the consternation of the intelligence community. the idea that there is nothing wrong, i never thought in my lifetime, ari, i would hear a president of the united states' top lawyer saying that. it's astounding to me. and yet further reason why the congresswoman's right, congress has to take a deep look at this and ask what the heck is going on. why is there so much weirdness in this administration about russia. >> yeah, it's a lot of important questions. we've been relying on your expertise a lot, and luckily we get to come back to you soon. so neal katyal, as part of our opening argument series, as always, thank you for joining us on "the beat." you can g
>> it depends on where it came from. >> don mcgahn saved him. >> don mcgahn didn't save him. >> don mcgahn didn't carry out an order and saved him. >> he had a perfect right to file mueller. >> omg. i don't know even where to begin. let me take there is nothing wrong with getting information from the russians. the russians are our most sophisticated adversary. trump has been denying that they interfered in the election time and again to the consternation of...
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president, what did you tell don mcgahn about mueller? i never told don mcgahn to fire mueller. if i wanted to fire mueller, i would have done it myself. it's very simple. i had the right to. and frankly, whether i did or he did, we had the absolute right to fire mueller. in the meantime, i didn't do it. i'm a student of history. i see what you get when you fire people, and it's not good. but there would have been nothing wrong with firing him. legally, i had absolute right to fire, but i never told don mcgahn to fire mueller. and by the way, and mueller finished out his report: no collusion and no obstruction. reporter: mr. president, how do you beat joe biden? pres. trump: i think we beat him easily. reporter: mr. president, measles cases are increasing. what a a tell parents about getting their kids vaccinated? measles. pres. trump:oh. they have to get the shot. the vaccinations are so important. this is really going around now. they have to get their shot. reporter: mr. president, how old is too old to be president? pres. trump: well, i think that, i just feel like a young m
president, what did you tell don mcgahn about mueller? i never told don mcgahn to fire mueller. if i wanted to fire mueller, i would have done it myself. it's very simple. i had the right to. and frankly, whether i did or he did, we had the absolute right to fire mueller. in the meantime, i didn't do it. i'm a student of history. i see what you get when you fire people, and it's not good. but there would have been nothing wrong with firing him. legally, i had absolute right to fire, but i never...
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one instance that don mcgahn was involved n.also, mcgahn did not go along with that and months after that when it was reported later that the president tried to fire the special counsel he wanted don mcgan to come out and say that just wasn't true. don mcgahn wouldn't do it because he told people that was true so he wasn't going to go out there and put his name on the line by denying something that had actually happened. that's another instance of the president pressuring people to go along with what he's demanded. one interesting one that people did not see coming is cory loon dousk i who worked on the president's campaign, does not work in the white house and never has, but the president tried to get him to send a message to the attorney general jeff sessions basically telling him that he wanted him to curtail the russia investigation. lewandowski realized that was a problem and did not go along with it and tried to pass it is along to someone else in the white house who did not follow through on it. what they all portray is a president being managed by his staff. that's not a depi
one instance that don mcgahn was involved n.also, mcgahn did not go along with that and months after that when it was reported later that the president tried to fire the special counsel he wanted don mcgan to come out and say that just wasn't true. don mcgahn wouldn't do it because he told people that was true so he wasn't going to go out there and put his name on the line by denying something that had actually happened. that's another instance of the president pressuring people to go along...
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by the way, don mcgahn, i would think that he would be smart. the man is an attorney and i think he would realize he probably doesn't want to spend the next six months of his life and the immense amount of resources it would take to fight a court battle. my guess is at the end of the day, don mcgahn, regardless of what the president tells him, is likely to appear before congress. >> you cautioned in the past that impeachment proceedings have exactly zero chance of removing president trump. i assume you are referring to the fact that you need two-third votes, 67 senators to agree to do so. and that's pretty unlikely. when you look at the president's efforts to stonewall congressional oversight, how does that influence your personal thinking about at least getting the ball started in the house of representatives? >> yeah, so remember we're talking about two different things here. number one is, does this president deserve impeachment? has he possibly committed crimes that would cross that legal threshold in the constitution of high crimes and misd
by the way, don mcgahn, i would think that he would be smart. the man is an attorney and i think he would realize he probably doesn't want to spend the next six months of his life and the immense amount of resources it would take to fight a court battle. my guess is at the end of the day, don mcgahn, regardless of what the president tells him, is likely to appear before congress. >> you cautioned in the past that impeachment proceedings have exactly zero chance of removing president...
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because in what he said to don mcgahn about he was first of all concerned don mcgahn was taking notes and said he had never seen a lawyer taking notes before and don mcgahn said i'm a real lawyer and he said i've worked with the best lawyer, roy cohn and you're no roy cohn. the idea that roy cohn is the model of what a attorney should be is telling. >> and he also had michael cohen. michael cohen didn't take notes, he just have a tape recorder. >> and michael cohen was a player in the trump orbit according to the president, he's been -- >> but i want to say this about don mcgahn. and i hope he's listening, he may not be. i'm very proud that he did what he did. because he honored legal profession. the president of the united states asked him to lie. asked him to lie. as the white house counsel. and he said no. that showed a lot of courage. >> but gene, i'm sort of torn on this issue because, yes, we need adults in the room to help the play stand up but somebody whose name is cited rachel brand is the smartest one -- the associate attorney general and the president wanted to lean pressu
because in what he said to don mcgahn about he was first of all concerned don mcgahn was taking notes and said he had never seen a lawyer taking notes before and don mcgahn said i'm a real lawyer and he said i've worked with the best lawyer, roy cohn and you're no roy cohn. the idea that roy cohn is the model of what a attorney should be is telling. >> and he also had michael cohen. michael cohen didn't take notes, he just have a tape recorder. >> and michael cohen was a player in...
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don mcgahn was attacked by rudy giuliani in some of rudy giuliani's public comments because don mcgahn may be the single most devastating witness against donald trump in the mueller report. don mcgahn, white house counsel taking notes in virtually all of his conversations with the president, don mcgahn was given the orders to fire the special prosecutor. he wouldn't do it. don mcgahn is possibly as i said the the most important source in the mueller report. of course, rudy giuliani starred attacking him. and tonight, don mcgahn's lawyer william burck issued a statement saying it's a mystery why rudy giuliani feels the needed to relit dait gate the attorney general and deputy attorney general have concluded were not obstruction but they are accurately described in the report. don nevertheless appreciates that the president gave him the opportunity to be as white house counsel and assist him with his signature accomplishments. and so here we have now the first public crack in the mcgahn wall. >> well, what you see there is him trying to have it both ways in a way. i actually think don mc
don mcgahn was attacked by rudy giuliani in some of rudy giuliani's public comments because don mcgahn may be the single most devastating witness against donald trump in the mueller report. don mcgahn, white house counsel taking notes in virtually all of his conversations with the president, don mcgahn was given the orders to fire the special prosecutor. he wouldn't do it. don mcgahn is possibly as i said the the most important source in the mueller report. of course, rudy giuliani starred...
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don mcgahn talked freely to the special counsel. that testimony has been made public, and so long as the congress confines its questions to mr. mcgann to the subjects on which he talked to mr. mueller, i don't think they have a leg to stand on. but there is another reason. the other reason is don mcgahn is not a government employee. the government doesn't have the right to demand that he keep his mouth shut. this is not attorney-client privilege where mcgahn is bound by law or by ethics to keep his mouth shut about communications with the president. he is a former employee. if the white house had the right to instruct former employees not to talk about their conversations with the president, we'd certainly have a lot fewer tell-all books by former white house staffers. >> william jeffress, attorney who represented former president richard nixon after he left office. sir, thank you for helping us understand your perspective on this. i hope you come back. it's a pleasure to have you here. >> thank you. >> all right. much more ahead. s
don mcgahn talked freely to the special counsel. that testimony has been made public, and so long as the congress confines its questions to mr. mcgann to the subjects on which he talked to mr. mueller, i don't think they have a leg to stand on. but there is another reason. the other reason is don mcgahn is not a government employee. the government doesn't have the right to demand that he keep his mouth shut. this is not attorney-client privilege where mcgahn is bound by law or by ethics to keep...
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they send rudy to attack don mcgahn, aides fear of retribution. if they could execute what ashley parker described and keep their focus on the investigators they might have an argument politically but this president is incapable of that. >> no. he can't keep his eye on the ball at all. you could also argue that don mcgahn is the only reason donald trump is narrowly going to avoid impeachment. if he does, i still think impeachment proceedings are going to go through no matter what. don mcgahn is such an interesting character in this drama because he completely used donald trump. what you pick up from reading the report is he definitely was not an admirer of donald trump but he liked the power he got from the office and from working for him and he left a lasting stamp on the u.s. supreme court, which is something that any conservative lawyer in washington would long dream of doing. so at the end of the day, don mcgahn got a lot out of the relationship. >> how do you see it, rick? >> he was the closest thing to a boy scout in the white house. >> all
they send rudy to attack don mcgahn, aides fear of retribution. if they could execute what ashley parker described and keep their focus on the investigators they might have an argument politically but this president is incapable of that. >> no. he can't keep his eye on the ball at all. you could also argue that don mcgahn is the only reason donald trump is narrowly going to avoid impeachment. if he does, i still think impeachment proceedings are going to go through no matter what. don...
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don mcgahn refused to do that. he refused to do that and other steps that would plainly put the president in even deeper jeopardy. i'm not sure the president understands it right now but don mcgahn did him a solid. >> kim, it doesn't sound like the person understands don mcgahn did him a solid. do you think don mcgahn saved his presidency. >> i think don mcgahn might have saved democracy because if the president had fired robert mueller, that the political process and the american public would have held mr. trump accountable and then we'd be in a situation where you get away with the saturday night massacre. so maybe it is a good thing it was stopped for that broader question. but, sure, there were heroes inside of the government that sort of put the brakes on this renegade president and at this point all in black and white, 480 pages, the question is will there be accountability through the political process and that is something that matters for purposes of our broader democratic process and democratic system of
don mcgahn refused to do that. he refused to do that and other steps that would plainly put the president in even deeper jeopardy. i'm not sure the president understands it right now but don mcgahn did him a solid. >> kim, it doesn't sound like the person understands don mcgahn did him a solid. do you think don mcgahn saved his presidency. >> i think don mcgahn might have saved democracy because if the president had fired robert mueller, that the political process and the american...
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but mcgahn, according to the report by the way, said here, the president tried to have don mcgahn deny that he tried to remove mueller. mcgahn refused to do that. how much weight would you say after all of that does don mcgahn's new statement carry in the report, cynthia? >> i think it carries a lot. he seems credible as you read through the part. my favorite part is he refused to do what the president wanted and the president got him angry that he was taking notes. i've never had a lawyer take notes. and real lawyers take notes. he said. >> that it is a good idea to keep a record. whole sequence between the two really rings true and gives you a feel you could almost be in the room with them the way it is written. i think mcgahn if reading the report a couple of times has a lot of credibility and that is why the president is so upset about him. >> stephanie ruhle pointed out that the notepads, there is a reason they are called legal notepads. because lawyers do take notes. go ahead, ben. >> could i add to that, when james comey came forward and told his story about the interactions wit
but mcgahn, according to the report by the way, said here, the president tried to have don mcgahn deny that he tried to remove mueller. mcgahn refused to do that. how much weight would you say after all of that does don mcgahn's new statement carry in the report, cynthia? >> i think it carries a lot. he seems credible as you read through the part. my favorite part is he refused to do what the president wanted and the president got him angry that he was taking notes. i've never had a...
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don mcgahn's uncle, pat. >> because literally donald could ask pat mcgahn to do anything. and he would do it for him. obviously don mcgahn had his limits with donald trump. >> you could argue that even trump fans face something of a puzzle right now. what should they think of don mcgahn? yes, donald trump is saying bad things about him. but he is, as you said erin, arguably the man who saved the trump presidency. >> right, that's the irony. >> yes. >> that's the guy he is shooting vicious arrows at. >> with friends like these. >> all right. thank you very much. and next, joe biden. poised to announce his run for president next we can. finally -- it's like he had gum on his shoes. will the decision force others like our next guest john kasich to sit out. and jeanie moos on rod rosenstein's blinkless -- isn't that dangerous -- performance. ♪ ♪ what did i miss? [laughter] you ready to go? yeah. let's go! ♪ it's nice. ♪ you got this! ♪ woo! ♪ ♪ ♪ when you rent from national... it's kind of like playing your own version of best ball. because here, you can choose
don mcgahn's uncle, pat. >> because literally donald could ask pat mcgahn to do anything. and he would do it for him. obviously don mcgahn had his limits with donald trump. >> you could argue that even trump fans face something of a puzzle right now. what should they think of don mcgahn? yes, donald trump is saying bad things about him. but he is, as you said erin, arguably the man who saved the trump presidency. >> right, that's the irony. >> yes. >> that's the...
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but the two i would focus on are the instruction to don mcgahn to fire -- >> don mcgahn the white house counsel? >> which is an out and out attempt to interfere with the investigation. unsuccessful because mcgahn resisted it. it's a crime to endeavor to obstruct justice, not just to obstruct justice. the other is the one that started the thing in the first place which is the firing of james comey which is not an attempt. it is an actual act by the president. and it's those two are symbolic of all of them, but when you see 11, it's a pretty extraordinary record of interference and attempted interference in this investigation. >> how damning, laura coats, is the investigation against the president on this issue of obstruction. >> it's extraordinarily damaging. normally the idea of quality over quantity is going to be an issue. when you don't have the actual intent that the president was actually intending to obstruct justice, the overall culmination of these things, the quality and quantity is going to be very important here. we have overwhelming information, 11 separate categories. it re
but the two i would focus on are the instruction to don mcgahn to fire -- >> don mcgahn the white house counsel? >> which is an out and out attempt to interfere with the investigation. unsuccessful because mcgahn resisted it. it's a crime to endeavor to obstruct justice, not just to obstruct justice. the other is the one that started the thing in the first place which is the firing of james comey which is not an attempt. it is an actual act by the president. and it's those two are...
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saying he never told don mcgahn anything. why would don mcgahn who has wh record of dishonesty, why would he lie to mueller, which, by the way, would by a crime? >> well, he didn't lie to mueller. if you read the mueller report they give testimony to what a reliable witness don mcgahn was. no reason don mcgahn would lie. so, it's not surprising that this is what he's doing. just saying in terms of seeing him out there before going on air force one this is a bonfire of grievances and resentment and anger. great numbers on the gdp and it doesn't matter because you can see this mueller report and all of his corruptions are eating him inside. and if you ever thought, what would it be like to see a person with narcissistic and you would look at that tape and the entire trump presidency. the isis a man who is just burning up inside with the grievances and resentments that he harbors. >> a week ago they looked at the mueller report and said this was a grand slam home run. what was your take away here? >> we saw the election campaign
saying he never told don mcgahn anything. why would don mcgahn who has wh record of dishonesty, why would he lie to mueller, which, by the way, would by a crime? >> well, he didn't lie to mueller. if you read the mueller report they give testimony to what a reliable witness don mcgahn was. no reason don mcgahn would lie. so, it's not surprising that this is what he's doing. just saying in terms of seeing him out there before going on air force one this is a bonfire of grievances and...
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we need to hear from don mcgahn. and then we need to have the committees do their work and then see where we're at. >> congressman ro khanna, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you, anderson. >>> next, more on jared kushner's pretty remarkable take on the russia probe as well as a fuller discussion of the breaking news, namely, president trump's willingness to challenge congress and where that might lead. we'll talk to nobel laureate paul krugman about that as well. later with former vice president biden expected to get into the presidential race this week, we'll ask the question, has he waited too long? and what are voters going to make of his message when he's just 1 of 20 out there. >> announcer: "anderson cooper 360" brought to you by nondrowsy 24-hour claritan. feel the clarity of non-drowsy claritin and relief from symptoms caused by over 200 indoor and outdoor allergens. like those from buddy. because stuffed animals are clearly no substitute for real ones. feel the clarity. and live claritin clear. â™
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don mcgahn he is not kept in a cage at the white house. he can come in on his own and testify and there is nothing the white house can do. so i'm encouraging him. i think everyone on the committee encouraging him do the right thing. he told the mueller team about instances of obstruction. the country should know, you know, how the president obstructed a lawful investigation. and allow us to decide how you hold someone accountable for doing that. >> you talked about talking to some of my colleagues this morning you talked about how you want to see the redacted version of the report. and hear from ph.d. began as we know. you would like to hear from mueller. there is talk about impeachment, especially among democrats and a question there. you seem to say you're not ready to go down that road. >> yeah. >> is there something that would move the needle for you. >> yeah. >> is there something in particular you want to hear from any of the who sfleem we're on the road to impeachment. it's not a road anyone chose. but we may have to go done it to s
don mcgahn he is not kept in a cage at the white house. he can come in on his own and testify and there is nothing the white house can do. so i'm encouraging him. i think everyone on the committee encouraging him do the right thing. he told the mueller team about instances of obstruction. the country should know, you know, how the president obstructed a lawful investigation. and allow us to decide how you hold someone accountable for doing that. >> you talked about talking to some of my...
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obvious li don mcgahn had his limits with donald trump. >> reporter: so what had they think of don mcgahn? the president is putting him down, but he as also the man who appears to have saved the trump presidency. >>> joining us now, rick filkins, counsel to the republicans during bill clinton's impeachment, and impeachment attorney ross garver, he's also a cnn analyst. ross, do you think the president would be indicted for obstruction if he weren't the sitting president? >> hard to say. i need the obstructive act, a nexus and i need corrupt intent. it's hard to take this situation outside of the white house. i've heard the argument that one of the reason he wasn't indicted is because there wasn't an underlying crime or one of the reasons he couldn't le charged with the crime is there wasn't an underlying crime that's an argument that generally doesn't hold water with respect to everyday people. >> i spoke with another attorney who said it would have been a slam dunk if he weren't a sitting president. so i'm curious forget your take. >> i completely disagree with that analysis. there's no
obvious li don mcgahn had his limits with donald trump. >> reporter: so what had they think of don mcgahn? the president is putting him down, but he as also the man who appears to have saved the trump presidency. >>> joining us now, rick filkins, counsel to the republicans during bill clinton's impeachment, and impeachment attorney ross garver, he's also a cnn analyst. ross, do you think the president would be indicted for obstruction if he weren't the sitting president? >>...
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make of don mcgahn? sure, the president is putting him down, but he is the very man who appears to have saved the trump presidency. tom foreman, cnn, washington. >> let's talk more now. here with me, here in atlanta, avery freeman, a civil rights attorney and law professor. welcome. >> welcome. >> and should be here in the house, but in los angeles -- >> close enough. if i was invited. if i was only invited. >> you are always invited. the door is always open. the door is always open. >> sooner or later. >> let's talk about this. does the president, you know, have don mcgahn to really thank for keeping, you know, everything together, not following the orders of the president. that sounds crazy, and ultimately saving the presidency. >> i don't think he saved the president at all. he is an ethical lawyer. when donald trump said i have never seen lawyers taking notes, he goes that's because i'm a real lawyer, meaning, i'm an ethical lawyer. he's keeping track. it's one of these amazing vignettes, fredricka,
make of don mcgahn? sure, the president is putting him down, but he is the very man who appears to have saved the trump presidency. tom foreman, cnn, washington. >> let's talk more now. here with me, here in atlanta, avery freeman, a civil rights attorney and law professor. welcome. >> welcome. >> and should be here in the house, but in los angeles -- >> close enough. if i was invited. if i was only invited. >> you are always invited. the door is always open. the...
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mcgahn at home over the weekend and told don mcgahn, directed him to call rob rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, saying robert mule core not stay on on as special counsel because there's conflicts of interest. we've learned that don mcgahn said he would not do so, that that would be another saturday night massacre and that was not something that he was going to do. also, as part of this, the special counsel included the part where this was reported and the president told don mcgahn to go out and pubically deny that the president had asked him to remove robert mueller. as we know that never happened, but this is something that robert mueller's team looked at as part of the calculation of whether this was a direct attempt to curtail the investigation in attempt to remove the special counsel. now, as we know, that never happened, but clearly laid out in this report robert mueller showed that the president wanted to remove him, directed his then white house counsel don mcgaab to do it but mcgahn didn't. what you're seeing come to light as we're trying to piece this together are exa
mcgahn at home over the weekend and told don mcgahn, directed him to call rob rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, saying robert mule core not stay on on as special counsel because there's conflicts of interest. we've learned that don mcgahn said he would not do so, that that would be another saturday night massacre and that was not something that he was going to do. also, as part of this, the special counsel included the part where this was reported and the president told don mcgahn to go...
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we need to hear from don mcgahn. and then we need to have the committees do their work and then see where we're at. >> congressman ro khanna, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you, anderson. >>> next, more on jared kushner's pretty remarkable take on the russia probe as well as a fuller discussion of the breaking news, namely, president trump's willingness to challenge congress and where that might lead. we'll talk to nobel laureate paul krugman about that as well. later, with former vice president biden expected to get into the presidential race this week, we'll ask the question, has he waited too long? and what are voters going to make of his message when he's just 1 of 20 out there? allergies with sinus congestion and pressure? you won't find relief here. go to the pharmacy counter for powerful claritin-d. while the leading allergy spray only relieves 6 symptoms, claritin-d relieves 8, including sinus congestion and pressure. claritin-d relieves more. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ pardon the int
we need to hear from don mcgahn. and then we need to have the committees do their work and then see where we're at. >> congressman ro khanna, thank you so much. appreciate it. >> thank you, anderson. >>> next, more on jared kushner's pretty remarkable take on the russia probe as well as a fuller discussion of the breaking news, namely, president trump's willingness to challenge congress and where that might lead. we'll talk to nobel laureate paul krugman about that as well....
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don mcgahn has already spoken to the special counsel. furthermore, you cannot use executive privilege effectively if, in fact, what is being investigated is whether or not there is criminal conduct engaged in in, in this case it is obstruction of justice and i think there is going to be a court battle on that as well and that's precisely what the president wants. to extend this as long as possible and never release information that will give us the truth as to whether or not he has evaded taxes, whether or not he has favored certain countries because he has loans through them and whether or not he's obstructed justice by having the former special counsel -- the former white house counsel testify before the committee. >> i suspect the legal battles are only just beginning. congresswoman, on the question of impeachment, you heard the speaker nancy pelosi urge caution at least for now. this is coming after senator elizabeth warren, a democrat presidential candidate told our cnn town hall last night and i'm quoting here, there is no politica
don mcgahn has already spoken to the special counsel. furthermore, you cannot use executive privilege effectively if, in fact, what is being investigated is whether or not there is criminal conduct engaged in in, in this case it is obstruction of justice and i think there is going to be a court battle on that as well and that's precisely what the president wants. to extend this as long as possible and never release information that will give us the truth as to whether or not he has evaded...
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don mcgahn said to himself no, and, therefore, don mcgahn is a free man. and the same thing with corey lewandowski or any number of other individuals named in the mueller report is that the way that all of these administration officials preserved their freedom and are not in jail right now or at least charged and in a court right now is because they refused to carry out the orders that president trump demanded of them. >> the specific details in here are very, very powerful. evan, you've been going through the document as well, 4,900-page mueller report with the redactions. give us the big look of mueller deciding whether or not to charge campaign officials. >> that's right, wolf. the report are, as volume one of the report describes the russian campaign, and the efforts by people associated with the trump campaign to essentially encourage some of that activity. none of that according to special counsel robert mueller crossed into the line where they can bring a charge, a crime against anybody associated with the campaign. on page 174 in volume one, it tal
don mcgahn said to himself no, and, therefore, don mcgahn is a free man. and the same thing with corey lewandowski or any number of other individuals named in the mueller report is that the way that all of these administration officials preserved their freedom and are not in jail right now or at least charged and in a court right now is because they refused to carry out the orders that president trump demanded of them. >> the specific details in here are very, very powerful. evan, you've...
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don mcgahn also did that. you like the guardrails. >> and the justice department bill barr is the same, you have chris ray at the fbi, these are all people who are institutionalists who revere the rule of law but now this is all in a political realm. you're right, the roles are reversed, and the democrats have to decide do they think this helps them politically or not, and i think that's how they're going to judge it, but i think we have been spared from tulsi gabbard to steny hoyer to senate republicans we should celebrate mueller found there wasn't conspiracy. >> that's all the time we have. happy easter to everyone. fareed zakaria picks up our breaking news that is out of sri lanka right now. >> this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the show, the mueller report. 23 months after mueller's appointment, the public now knows much of what he has discovered. is the president in the cle
don mcgahn also did that. you like the guardrails. >> and the justice department bill barr is the same, you have chris ray at the fbi, these are all people who are institutionalists who revere the rule of law but now this is all in a political realm. you're right, the roles are reversed, and the democrats have to decide do they think this helps them politically or not, and i think that's how they're going to judge it, but i think we have been spared from tulsi gabbard to steny hoyer to...
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mcgahn, to fire the special counsel. >> i never told don mcgahn to fire mueller. if i wanted to fire mueller, i would have done it myself. but i'm a student of history. i see what you get when you fire people. and it's not good. >> reporter: mr. trump is now savaging mueller, a man he called honorable a few weeks ago. >> we had 18 people that were trump haters. that includes mr. mueller. he was a trump hater. >> very fine people on both sides? >> the president is also relitigating his response to the white supremacist violence in charlottesville, after former vice president joe biden slammed mr. trump for saying there were very fine people on both sides. >> if you look at what i said, you will see that that question was answered perfectly. people were there protesting the taking down of the monument of robert e. lee. everybody knows that. >> reporter: but that's not true. there were also neo-nazis and other white nationalists chanting anti-semitic slogans. cnn pressed mr. trump on this nearly two weeks ago in the aftermath of charlottesville. >> so the neo-nazis s
mcgahn, to fire the special counsel. >> i never told don mcgahn to fire mueller. if i wanted to fire mueller, i would have done it myself. but i'm a student of history. i see what you get when you fire people. and it's not good. >> reporter: mr. trump is now savaging mueller, a man he called honorable a few weeks ago. >> we had 18 people that were trump haters. that includes mr. mueller. he was a trump hater. >> very fine people on both sides? >> the president is...
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don mcgahn would be a key witness at that. he's going right at don mcgahn trying to cast seeds of doubt over what mcgahn told robert mueller. and there's maybe a tiny bit of wiggle room. don mcgahn essentially says that trump asked him to call rod rosenstein and say get rid of mueller. he has conflicts of interest. over some golf fees like ten years popping mcgahn says not going to do that. then "the new york times" does a story about that call and trump calls him and says, can you put out a statement denying that story. mcgahn says, not going to do that. now a debate over whether trump ordered mcgahn to fire mueller. and because they didn't use the word fire, i think trump thinks he has wiggle room, which is crazy, but here we are. >> the point is now we're talking about it. >> we're talking about it and i am a believer, don mcgahn wrote copious notes. his assistant wrote cope yious notes while he knew there was an investigation under way. he knew he was going to be speaking to mueller and knew he'd be asked to testify. he is
don mcgahn would be a key witness at that. he's going right at don mcgahn trying to cast seeds of doubt over what mcgahn told robert mueller. and there's maybe a tiny bit of wiggle room. don mcgahn essentially says that trump asked him to call rod rosenstein and say get rid of mueller. he has conflicts of interest. over some golf fees like ten years popping mcgahn says not going to do that. then "the new york times" does a story about that call and trump calls him and says, can you...
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white house counsel, don mcgahn. watch out for people who take so-called notes. >> the toned down testimony of torture and captivity. as my siblings being ghtmares chained up or getting beaten. >> my parents took my whole life from me, but now i'm taking my life back. >>> announcer: this is "new day" weekend with victor blackwell and christi paul. >> good morning to you. now that they have read the redacted mueller report, democrats are divided over what they are going to do next. the democrat aide tells cnn, they feel they are only at just then what is the end? some democrats say impeachment. the party is divided on that issue. 2020 candidate, elizabeth warren says it's time for the house to start the proceedings. >> the leaders in the house say they are not there, yet. in a conference call scheduled for monday to talk about what to do next. here is mono roju with more. >> reporter: trump es efforts to thwart the russia probe. >> i believe he committed obstruction, yes. >> reporter: a subpoena to the justice departm
white house counsel, don mcgahn. watch out for people who take so-called notes. >> the toned down testimony of torture and captivity. as my siblings being ghtmares chained up or getting beaten. >> my parents took my whole life from me, but now i'm taking my life back. >>> announcer: this is "new day" weekend with victor blackwell and christi paul. >> good morning to you. now that they have read the redacted mueller report, democrats are divided over what...
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these people, don mcgahn in particular, are lying. but when you look at the level of detail in the mueller report, where the president calls in don mcgahn and said i never said that to you, and don mcgahn says, yes, you did. you told me to call so-and-so and get this done. and the president even denies it to don mcgahn face-to-face, and then makes fun of the fact that mcgahn was a contemporaneous note taker as an attorney and the president said none of my attorneys ever used to do that. we know his favorite attorney in the world is roy kohn, who was disbarred in the '80s. >> just to put -- not to put too fine of a point on it, but when you say don mcgahn was speaking underoath, he was speaking under oath to somebody who sent other people to jail for lying under oath. >> absolutely. >> so you have to tell the truth with robert mueller because he will send you to prison. >> and also, don't forget, he was the white house counsel. this is a man of some repute who got a huge legal job inside the white house, and who continually, according
these people, don mcgahn in particular, are lying. but when you look at the level of detail in the mueller report, where the president calls in don mcgahn and said i never said that to you, and don mcgahn says, yes, you did. you told me to call so-and-so and get this done. and the president even denies it to don mcgahn face-to-face, and then makes fun of the fact that mcgahn was a contemporaneous note taker as an attorney and the president said none of my attorneys ever used to do that. we know...
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." >> the other don besides the president is don mcgahn. the president's relationship with don mcgahn quickly soured. we saw that don mcgahn talked for 30 hours with the mueller team. a lot of it shows in the cinematic detail about what don mcgahn was doing, who he was thinking, who he was calling. the president realized that don mcgahn was soaking in and even letting go of a lot of what was known. axios has learned that the president got so suspicious of don mcgahn that he started to wonder if he was wearing a wire. we learn in the report that the president said that he was suspicious of all don mcgahn's note taking. this is a priceless exchange. the president said why are you taking notes? i've never had a lawyer who took notes and don mcgahn said to him "because i'm a real lawyer." >> wow. talk to us also about the report when it comes to mcgahn and comey and the firing of comey and also then the president wanting to see mueller removed from his position. >> that's right. and this was one of the many cases where the president's aides sav
." >> the other don besides the president is don mcgahn. the president's relationship with don mcgahn quickly soured. we saw that don mcgahn talked for 30 hours with the mueller team. a lot of it shows in the cinematic detail about what don mcgahn was doing, who he was thinking, who he was calling. the president realized that don mcgahn was soaking in and even letting go of a lot of what was known. axios has learned that the president got so suspicious of don mcgahn that he started...
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what should they think of don mcgahn? sure, the president is putting him down but he is also the very man who appears to have saved the trump presidency. tom foreman, cnn, washington. >>> with us now, cnn legal analyst and former fell prosecutor shan wu. shan, let's pick up where tom foreman left off there. the role of don mcgahn, do you think he rescued the trump presidency? >> i think he ended up helping the president from not committing more overt obstruction. what's in the report reveals the president really already did commit a lot of obstruction. so i think mcgahn should certainly be credited for following his conscience and refusing to do something that he felt was wrong. i don't know that in the end, it it necessarily saves the presidency, because all the details are still coming out. and they're very troubling details. i personally think it's quite clear from the report that mueller found enough evidence to charge him with obstruction but did not do so because he's the president. >> so you think if he weren't the
what should they think of don mcgahn? sure, the president is putting him down but he is also the very man who appears to have saved the trump presidency. tom foreman, cnn, washington. >>> with us now, cnn legal analyst and former fell prosecutor shan wu. shan, let's pick up where tom foreman left off there. the role of don mcgahn, do you think he rescued the trump presidency? >> i think he ended up helping the president from not committing more overt obstruction. what's in the...
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let's start with former white house counsel don mcgahn. the mueller report says after news reports the president trade to have mcgahn deny that he tried to remove mueller. mcgahn refused to do that. how much weight does it carry? >> right. it's not surprising that mcgahn was such a central figure especially in the obstruction section of the report, which is volume 2. we've known a lot of this from public reporting over the last couple of years. what was surprising to me was the fact that, one, mcgahn actually spoke publicly about it and defended what was in the report and we saw this evolution from, you know, the president and his allies claiming this was a complete and total exoneration, that he was vindicated, so on and so forth. we've seen reporting and i've were the most iple white house concerned about what this report was going to say as far as his conversations with don mcgahn. it's not surprising that the president would go from it's a complete and total exoneration to calling it, quote, the crazy mueller report and appearing to ta
let's start with former white house counsel don mcgahn. the mueller report says after news reports the president trade to have mcgahn deny that he tried to remove mueller. mcgahn refused to do that. how much weight does it carry? >> right. it's not surprising that mcgahn was such a central figure especially in the obstruction section of the report, which is volume 2. we've known a lot of this from public reporting over the last couple of years. what was surprising to me was the fact that,...
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. >> one of the chief perpetrators was don mcgahn. and don mcgahn in his extensive interviews, 30 hours or so, inh hiened written notes described the president trying to fire department officials and go around avenues andry at e turn was trying to take this probe and trying to get i off. and jeff sessions unrecues himself. and don mcdepaun is the star witness. or all of the details, the cover, the schemes, the lies and the testimony of don mcgahn are would he he together and the president is frustrated with don mcgahn was he is showing the president. robert: the president is fuming on twitter, but mcgahn is a complicated figure. >> he is aawyer who plays in a rock band andmp aacshed musiciannd biggest accomplishment with the judges. he has worked with the president to develop theams judicial list of the supreme court nominees that wa beneficial to the president. and worked with mitch mccobble tout dozens and dozens of people on the supreme court. at the same time, you could look at him two ways, one, his olympicing of the president an
. >> one of the chief perpetrators was don mcgahn. and don mcgahn in his extensive interviews, 30 hours or so, inh hiened written notes described the president trying to fire department officials and go around avenues andry at e turn was trying to take this probe and trying to get i off. and jeff sessions unrecues himself. and don mcdepaun is the star witness. or all of the details, the cover, the schemes, the lies and the testimony of don mcgahn are would he he together and the president...
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i'll take don mcgahn any day over the word of donald trump. >> don mcgahn, who, by the way, was keeping contemporaneous notes which the president himself took issue with. >> that's right. >> so then the question is yeah, do you trust the general counsel of the white house, who is taking notes at the time and, you know, is an attorney who has taken an oath or the president who, as you said, has the history that he has. yesterday you said that the president's moves have triggered a constitutional crisis. in what? in that he's -- in the way he is trying to block these investigations? >> he basically said we're done with cooperating with any subpoenas, any subpoenas involving any of these investigations with the congress. you don't get to do that as the chief executive of the united states government. you must respect the constitutional checks and balances written by our founders. >> don mcgahn is a private citizen now. even if the president doesn't want him to testify, if he is subpoenaed, does the white house really have any authority over whether don mcgahn testifies, given that they alr
i'll take don mcgahn any day over the word of donald trump. >> don mcgahn, who, by the way, was keeping contemporaneous notes which the president himself took issue with. >> that's right. >> so then the question is yeah, do you trust the general counsel of the white house, who is taking notes at the time and, you know, is an attorney who has taken an oath or the president who, as you said, has the history that he has. yesterday you said that the president's moves have...
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mcgahn to testify but we can assume don mcgahn told robert mueller everything he knows and that's in the report. is the issue the president doesn't want don mcgahn to testify, which could possibly be in public or that information would most definitely get out and the majority of the american people didn't actually read the mueller report, but if he listen to the president or listen to bill barr, they've given the american people the excuse to say it's all done, wrapped up, move on. does he not want to put mcghan in the spotlight for all of us actually to hear in mcghan's words what happened? >> it may not be the president's choice. don mcgahn and his attorney general bill burke have to make a decision in light of the president's comments about the president may be asserting executive privilege about mcghan's possible testimony. mcghan could argue that his comments to mr. mueller are not privileged because they're now part of a public document and they're out there in the public's sphere. and because of that he could say despite the president's misgivings about congress, mcghan could
mcgahn to testify but we can assume don mcgahn told robert mueller everything he knows and that's in the report. is the issue the president doesn't want don mcgahn to testify, which could possibly be in public or that information would most definitely get out and the majority of the american people didn't actually read the mueller report, but if he listen to the president or listen to bill barr, they've given the american people the excuse to say it's all done, wrapped up, move on. does he not...
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Apr 28, 2019
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is don mcgahn playing a similar role or not? he doesn't seem to be posturing himself or positioning himself as a whistleblower per se. on the same side, he's provided robert mueller with some of the most damning information that's in that report. so where does the come off? he looks like he's caught in the middle. he doesn't want to testify, according to people around him, yet it looks like he might have to. if he does, how is he going to help or hurt the president? >> interesting take on "meet the press" earlier. andrea mitchell and former deputy attorney general sally yates. let's take a listen to that. >> i've been a prosecutor for nearly 30 years. i can tell you i've personally prosecuted obstruction cases on far, far less evidence than this. and yes, i believe if he were not the president of the united states, he would likely be indicted on obstruction. >> abigail, is that widespread belief -- keep in mind, sally yates was fired by the administration. >> yes, so i think you'll certainly have legal experts and lawyers who wi
is don mcgahn playing a similar role or not? he doesn't seem to be posturing himself or positioning himself as a whistleblower per se. on the same side, he's provided robert mueller with some of the most damning information that's in that report. so where does the come off? he looks like he's caught in the middle. he doesn't want to testify, according to people around him, yet it looks like he might have to. if he does, how is he going to help or hurt the president? >> interesting take on...
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Apr 26, 2019
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legally i had absolute right to fire him, but i never told don mcgahn to fire mueller. and by the way, and mueller finished out his report, no collusion, and no obstruction. >> mr. president, how do you beat joe biden? >> i think we beat him easily. >> wait, stop, stop. >> what do you tell parents about getting their kids vaccinated? >> measles. >> they have to get the shot. the vaccinations. it's so important. this is really going around now. they have to get their shots. >> mr. president how old is too old to be president? >> well, i think that -- i just feel like a young man. i'm so young. i can't believe it. i'm the youngest person -- i am a young, vibrant man. i look at joe, i don't know about him. i don't know. i would never say anyone's too old. i know they're all making me look very young, both in terms of age and i think in terms of energy. i think you people know that better than anybody. ye yeah. >> i've answered that question. if you look at what i said, you will see that that question was answered perfectly, and i was talking about people that went because
legally i had absolute right to fire him, but i never told don mcgahn to fire mueller. and by the way, and mueller finished out his report, no collusion, and no obstruction. >> mr. president, how do you beat joe biden? >> i think we beat him easily. >> wait, stop, stop. >> what do you tell parents about getting their kids vaccinated? >> measles. >> they have to get the shot. the vaccinations. it's so important. this is really going around now. they have to...